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This has been a topic of debate for quite a long time. Mostly I have seen most comments and conversations based on one of 2 things. Opinion and success in competition. Being someone who has served in jobs which have required me to fight and subdue, I believe that I have a valuable first hand point of view on going to and fighting on the ground, in various scenarios and situations.

I have seen the ego of some ground fighters argue the strength, superiority and dominance of their art no different than so many traditional martial artistand MMA fighters I have known. I understand the desire to want to believe that you are studying the best art. But the truth is that in my experience and I have seen this many times, going to the ground can be the most unwise decision someone can make. 98% of the fights I have seen go to the ground have been because of someone getting knocked out or seriously stunned and the other person (and usually many people, sometimes people that have nothing to do with the fight) just stomp, kick and hit the Guy on the ground.
I have only seen a small amount of ground fights where there were actually 2 people fighting instead of someone just getting beat down by one or multiple guys.
People aslo don't seem to understand how environmental factors make a difference. These things along with possible multiple assailants are just either ignored or denied. I have seen and been in more conflicts that I can count (I promise mostly on the job).

So many people I have known who comment on ground fighting and insist on it's dominance, effectiveness and necessity have never been in a real fight, only done competition or think that their few one on one fights where there were no other people around and nothing on or around the ground to get in the way or be used as a weapon make them authorities on combat and the dominance of the ground.

People have to realize that working one a car or two does not make you an expert mechanic or a mechanical engineer, more does a street fight or 2 or just training and no actual combat experience does not combat expert make.

While I agree that it is important to know how to fight on the ground, it is more important to be able to get back to your feet and stay mobile and defend from multiple opponents.

People seem to forget or ignore the fact that hand to hand combat has not really changed in centuries. I believe that certain areas of combat enter and go through fads. But time has truly shown us where not only do we prefer to fight, but also what range is most effective and dominant. Lets remember that there has been trade and exchange of fighting philosophies and techniques for as long as there have been techniques. Our day and age and ability to share knowledge and ideas is not as unique as we may want to believe.

For those that have experience beyond the mat/ring, who have been in and witnessed combat in all it's reality, what is your 2 cents?

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That sounds very interesting. I train in Kokodo Jujitsu (a derivative of Hakko-Ryu), but we rarely do any groundwork. Kokodo is a "peaceful" martial art. The focus is on control through pain compliance. I do enjoy the art, but I think it's a bit too narrowly focused.


I consider Hapkido my core art, but I've learned a lot in Kokodo. They have turned wrist locks into a fine art.

Our JJ is very much based on 5 levels of defense:





Super Offense

In light of my recent experience I thought that it was pertinent to come back to this subject.
As some of you may know, I was injured on the job in march. I was working security at a club where they where holding a Punk Rock event. A fight broke out (Damn near a melee) and to make a short story even shorter I was on the ground covering a patron with my body to keep him from being kicked and stomped to death while waiting for backup to arrive. As i lay there on top of this guy someone comes from behind me and hits me in the face with a bottle, cutting me from my right eye to my lip.

How does this pertain to the subject at hand even though I was not fighting? Simple! It shows the true dangers of ground combat. I was finding off 5 or 6 guys from the ground when another came out of the blue. Simply, my scar and its story will always be my retort for the argument of the dominance of ground fighting arts!

How's the scar? Is it very bad? Are you back at work?

It is healing ok I am told. I see it like a neon sign. As for work they declined my work release not even giving me the option to come back. That was illegal. The other club I worked at closed down. Owner decided to sell. Right now I am teaching privately when I can, doing contracting work when I can and whatever else I can. Unfortunately the club got shady real fast forcing me to get a lawyer and file a lawsuit. I hope it doesn't take forever. It has been about 3 months since my lawyers have been working on it, but it can take a while when dealing with insurance companies.

My biggest concern with the job right now or any time I go into a bar is that instead of having a security mindset I find i am right on the verge of combat mode, ready to snap anyone who gets to close.

How rotten of that club to treat you that way. I hope you kick their asses in court.

Sounds like you've got some PTSD going on.

I dunno. All I know is that i have gone from a professional mindset to an aggressive mindset. I have ran from air raid sirens, chased fugitives down dark ally and gone toe to toe with men 3 times my size. I don't know why it would be PTSD. It is not my first injury.




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